>How could a nature religion sterilize itself of nature’s most fundamental law, that to live you must take?
I assume you're referring to some of the "vegetarian" crowd, who do permeate Pagan spheres (and frankly they always have) and I think you are mostly correct. However, there is also the argument that meat consumption in this day and age is the issue, and not meat consumption in general. Due to factory farming, of course. It troubled me for a while, because factory farming really is utterly disgusting even beyond any utilitarian concerns. But ultimately, "sustainable living" is not saving the environment. It is simply freeing up more space for the useless mouths to take up (ex: Africans who are having 5 kids and becoming increasingly wealthy and lavish-living)
There are also some who simply refuse to eat un-sacrificed meat (I believe Pythagoras was among this type, even though some sources say he was entirely vegetarian). This is somewhat understandable when you recognize how the ancients viewed sacrifice for the animals involved. It was seen as the most dignified and respectable way of killing an animal. Greks even viewed the animals as having to show a sign of acceptance or support for their sacrifice in order to do it. I think some Hindoos have justified it as literally formalizing the ascent of some animal's soul into a higher rung on whatever their kind calls the Chain of Being.
>At this moment, you have no idea what you’re doing. Ancient priests and augurs spent years training to perform sacrifices properly, and in a setting where it is entirely practicable to do so.
Yes, correct. Just as how Rabbinical Judaism is something of a provisional Jewish religion in the absence of their priestly class, Pagans have to recognize that certain elements of Paganism were contingent on a setting with a correct tripartite division of society.
I would say, hmm, currying favor with the gods is indeed the goal of sacrifice, but it is also an act of piety (in the Roman sense) or the Vedic equivalent of Bhakti. We wish for the favor of gods but even if it does not come in the way we wish, sacrifice is still proper behavior.
Very interesting read, though there seems to be a clear, practical, and contemporarily attractive alternative.
In the comparison of the teacher and the apple, particularly that of the fresh, handpicked fruit from the family’s tree, what exactly is it that the teacher finds charming; undoubtedly the extra effort to select something particularly pleasing to the recipient, something born of personal toil gifted for the sake of expressing appreciation. The value of its act is partially determined by the personal expenditure (ie. a nice gesture, taken the extra mile by the effort behind it). In this sense, the sacrifice of an animal would be a fitting act for a farmer, a praise of the gods by offering their best steer, possibly in the hopes of breeding yet more. However, the average person has no stake in the animal that is offered, unless they are giving their effort to its care and health. Four kids offer a single apple to the teacher, picked from the offerer’s tree; one kid is charming, the rest are transparently mooching off their friend in an attempt to gain a similar boon.
Would not a more personal example of creative devotion be a more significant sacrifice? The writing of a poem, carefully perfecting it in the months leading up to the holiday where it is offered/performed. It would be far more impressive to have a group of tradesmen spend a year working on a sculpture in praise of a specific deity, for it is an act of personal dedication. Essentially, saying “I give my best work to you, because you deserve it”. Creative sacrifice is a much more accessible means in the current day and age, but I’d argue, is a more superior offering. Not solely because of the effort behind it, but because it makes the offering deeply personal to its creator, fostering stronger devotion.
Yes I agree, and I have done these with success, however they're very tame. There's certain gods who wouldn't be charmed by poetry, I'd imagine. In following of Iambichlus' theurgy the ritual should fit the god
Glad I found this, it explains a lot of what I thought but never really put into words. I have worked on a farm all my life - animals dying and being eaten is normal. Recently, I have thought a lot about changing jobs and working as a butcher, so I could get more experience in working with bigger animals. This would be a useful skill in future ritual settings.
I have a buddy who says animal sacrifice is just humans hosting a BBQ for the Gods. I have always liked that.
>How could a nature religion sterilize itself of nature’s most fundamental law, that to live you must take?
I assume you're referring to some of the "vegetarian" crowd, who do permeate Pagan spheres (and frankly they always have) and I think you are mostly correct. However, there is also the argument that meat consumption in this day and age is the issue, and not meat consumption in general. Due to factory farming, of course. It troubled me for a while, because factory farming really is utterly disgusting even beyond any utilitarian concerns. But ultimately, "sustainable living" is not saving the environment. It is simply freeing up more space for the useless mouths to take up (ex: Africans who are having 5 kids and becoming increasingly wealthy and lavish-living)
There are also some who simply refuse to eat un-sacrificed meat (I believe Pythagoras was among this type, even though some sources say he was entirely vegetarian). This is somewhat understandable when you recognize how the ancients viewed sacrifice for the animals involved. It was seen as the most dignified and respectable way of killing an animal. Greks even viewed the animals as having to show a sign of acceptance or support for their sacrifice in order to do it. I think some Hindoos have justified it as literally formalizing the ascent of some animal's soul into a higher rung on whatever their kind calls the Chain of Being.
>At this moment, you have no idea what you’re doing. Ancient priests and augurs spent years training to perform sacrifices properly, and in a setting where it is entirely practicable to do so.
Yes, correct. Just as how Rabbinical Judaism is something of a provisional Jewish religion in the absence of their priestly class, Pagans have to recognize that certain elements of Paganism were contingent on a setting with a correct tripartite division of society.
I would say, hmm, currying favor with the gods is indeed the goal of sacrifice, but it is also an act of piety (in the Roman sense) or the Vedic equivalent of Bhakti. We wish for the favor of gods but even if it does not come in the way we wish, sacrifice is still proper behavior.
"Pagans have to recognize that certain elements of Paganism were contingent on a setting with a correct tripartite division of society. "
Well said.
Very interesting read, though there seems to be a clear, practical, and contemporarily attractive alternative.
In the comparison of the teacher and the apple, particularly that of the fresh, handpicked fruit from the family’s tree, what exactly is it that the teacher finds charming; undoubtedly the extra effort to select something particularly pleasing to the recipient, something born of personal toil gifted for the sake of expressing appreciation. The value of its act is partially determined by the personal expenditure (ie. a nice gesture, taken the extra mile by the effort behind it). In this sense, the sacrifice of an animal would be a fitting act for a farmer, a praise of the gods by offering their best steer, possibly in the hopes of breeding yet more. However, the average person has no stake in the animal that is offered, unless they are giving their effort to its care and health. Four kids offer a single apple to the teacher, picked from the offerer’s tree; one kid is charming, the rest are transparently mooching off their friend in an attempt to gain a similar boon.
Would not a more personal example of creative devotion be a more significant sacrifice? The writing of a poem, carefully perfecting it in the months leading up to the holiday where it is offered/performed. It would be far more impressive to have a group of tradesmen spend a year working on a sculpture in praise of a specific deity, for it is an act of personal dedication. Essentially, saying “I give my best work to you, because you deserve it”. Creative sacrifice is a much more accessible means in the current day and age, but I’d argue, is a more superior offering. Not solely because of the effort behind it, but because it makes the offering deeply personal to its creator, fostering stronger devotion.
Yes I agree, and I have done these with success, however they're very tame. There's certain gods who wouldn't be charmed by poetry, I'd imagine. In following of Iambichlus' theurgy the ritual should fit the god
Yes, Bach sacrifice his music to God if yuo think about it.
Glad I found this, it explains a lot of what I thought but never really put into words. I have worked on a farm all my life - animals dying and being eaten is normal. Recently, I have thought a lot about changing jobs and working as a butcher, so I could get more experience in working with bigger animals. This would be a useful skill in future ritual settings.
I have a buddy who says animal sacrifice is just humans hosting a BBQ for the Gods. I have always liked that.
Gym girl physique on that idol lol